JOHN L SMALLWOOD | What's coming down the turnpike?

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John Smallwood Smallwood Wealth Management

Where is the world headed? Cash in the bank is losing value as living expenses continue to rise. Everyone's being forced into increasingly risky assets amidst growing uncertainty about the future. John L Smallwood is making a return visit to this podcast to share his views about the Infrastructure Bill, its effect on commodities prices and inflation, and how the government is printing money that is not being spent efficiently.

Surveys are showing that a large number of people in the US believe that they're going to be less well off in a year's time. They're not looking towards the future with any optimism.

Smallwood Wealth Management

John L. Smallwood is a Certified Financial Planner™ and President of Smallwood Wealth Management, a 6-time recipient of the Five Star℠ Wealth Manager Award. He has spoken at numerous events including the Entrepreneurs Conference by the Haas School of Business, the University of California at Berkeley and John Hopkins University.

“My grandfather used to tell me, you know, ready money available money is Aladdin's lamp. And I was like, what are you talking about? He was like, if you have money and there are opportunities that exist, you can take advantage of it, if you don't have ready money available money, liquid money, you're not going to take advantage of it. ”

John also has the Wealth Curve Talk Podcast, where he reveals wealth management strategies from financial planning, business ownership, estate planning, insurance - bringing to light insights that listeners can use to gain financial confidence and clarity.

Wealth Curve Talk Podcast with John L. Smallwood


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Phil Muscatello (34s):

Hi, I'm welcomed back to stocks for beginners. I'm Phil Muscatello. Today, my guest is one of the many saints of New Jersey, John L Smallwood. Hello John

John Smallwood (43s):

Hello, and thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you very much.

Phil Muscatello (46s):

I should say, "Joisey".

John Smallwood (51s):


Phil Muscatello (51s):

John's the President of Smallwood Wealth Management and they provide investment consulting and financial plans designed for corporate executives, entrepreneurs, and professionals. But we find out more about the business at the end of the podcast that we can direct listeners to. And he has his own podcast and is a previous guest of this one. So welcome back and thanks for the return visit.

John Smallwood (1m 11s):

Thanks for having me I appreciate it.

Phil Muscatello (1m 13s):

We're going to be talking about inflation today. And in particular, we're basing this discussion on one of your recent podcast episodes, which is about the infrastructure bill and we're recording on the 22nd of November and it's been passed by the House and is yet to be passed by the Senate. So what are your views at the moment on this and inflation?

John Smallwood (1m 36s):

Well, the infrastructure bill that has been passed by both the house and the Senate, it's the Build Back Better Bill that has been passed by the house, but now it's on its way to the Senate and that's the one that's actually going to pay for this thing. Okay. And that is where we're, I think we're going to see some dramatic changes in what's going to happen, but this infrastructure bill it's going through it's $1.2 trillion. Basically, you have 110 billion allocated to roads and bridges, 39 billion allocated to public transit, 66 billion to the railroads, 73 billion to power grids, seven and a half billion to electric vehicles, there have and then seven and a half billion to electric buses and ferries, and then airports, another $42 billion.

John Smallwood (2m 28s):

Right. It's really interesting to me because when you start to think about this, all of this is going to require a tremendous amount of natural resources, which is good for you guys. Right? But think about it. Like I know over the last few years, there have been so many different conversations about natural resources being hoarded and you know, certain places buying them up in mass quantity, cornering the market, basically on these things, which if we all rush to improve the airports, well, we need concrete and steel, right? And then roads and bridges. We need concrete and steel, but where do we not need concrete and steel?

John Smallwood (3m 12s):

Right. So what we're looking at is like these commodities are going to go up in price. There's going to be a scarcity of them. And with a scarcity of them, that's going to cause inflation and other areas. Now we're experiencing with the quantitative easing that we've had in the United States, the different aspects of it. It's created a very strange dichotomy between many things have gone up dramatically because people have a lot more discretionary income and they might've had in the last couple of years and they've decided they're going to consume these things. And you have, you have a lack of product because you don't have the people working. So now you have all these things going up.

John Smallwood (3m 53s):

And we, we are experiencing at the time of this recording, you know, we have our big United States holiday, Thanksgiving feast, and you have turkeys that are, you know, way up in price and you have your potatoes and you have your butter and you have your milk and your cheese and your veggies. I mean, everything's just crazy expensive up 15-20% in some of those areas. And that's really putting a pinch on everybody. Like you think about it, diesel fuel in the United States, in New Jersey in April - May with $2 and 75 cents is over $4. And you know, gas is the same thing.

John Smallwood (4m 34s):

Gas was like down to like a dollar 78, you know, regular. And now it's $3.89, right? That hurts everybody. And that's the thing that when you're working and accumulating wealth, most people experience my income creeps up. So I'm making a little bit more money every single year. Maybe I have a banner year and I get a great bonus or I get a four or 5% raise. And if inflation is two or 3%, you're kind of staying out in front of it. You're really not feeling that impact of it. You are, but you're not feeling it the same way as somebody who's retired and living on a fixed income, whether it be a pension or, you know, we have social security here, that's going to get an inflationary rise.

John Smallwood (5m 19s):

It's going to be close to 5%. Nobody was expecting that. But most people are feeling that crunch and that's causing higher withdrawal rates, It's causing higher distribution rates from their investments. Principal spend downs. It's been interesting.

Phil Muscatello (5m 38s):

Is that because people understand that their money is losing value by just sitting in the bank, who are they holding? Are they putting the cash under the bed?

John Smallwood (5m 45s):

We have a lot of cash, according to all the figures in money, market accounts, and savings accounts, there are tremendously high levels of savings, much more so than we've seen, but there's no return on it. So people are driving it into the stock market. They're pushing it there. They bought a lot of bonds this year, which is very different than you normally see. And it's kind of flies in the face of conventional wisdom. It actually doesn't if it's directly impacted, because what people do is they chase yields and people were looking at the bond market saying, Hey, the bond market last year made 8 or 9% bonds aren't risky. So money rushed they're well at 50-year interest rate lows bonds are very risky.

John Smallwood (6m 29s):

You know, rising interest rates are going to be a problem for these bonds and people are pushing that money and they're trying to get yield. Then what we're seeing is, you know, you could buy a stock that has a dividend of one and a half to 2%, or you can buy a bond that has a real true interest rate yield to maturity of about 2% over a 10 year period. The stock market should be better not going to promise that, but it should be. So you're seeing, you're seeing people going into, you know, significantly higher risk vehicles because they're chasing yield And they're forced to really aren't. They are able to get something for the money they're forced to.

John Smallwood (7m 11s):

And when we're creating a plan for an individual, we're always looking to have somewhere in the neighborhood of 50% of your annual spending, sitting in liquid cash-type vehicles, right? So you lose your job, you have an emergency, you have something. But typically somewhere in that 40 to 50% is what is normal. And what we're seeing is since the interest rates are so low, people are saying, I can't have the money sitting here. I'm like, no, this is the point where you don't want to put it at risk. You actually want to hang on to that cash because history basically does repeat itself and you are going to see some pullbacks.

John Smallwood (7m 52s):

And in those, in that opportunity, it's that cash that creates the opportunity. You know, if I invest all my money and the stock market falls 50%, I don't have any cash. I'm like everybody else, I can't take advantage of that. All right. The thing that I'm starting to see people like they're calling for more distributions, that people that are retired, they need more money. They're running up credit card debt. They're doing things because they're starting to feel that pinch and it's really questioning how can they get increased yield? How can they protect against the inflation? Right. And I look at it and say, inflation is coming from many different areas.

John Smallwood (8m 33s):

You know, we have stupid rules being passed around the country where truck drivers, there is a push to unionize them, right? In certain states and stuff like that. And they can't operate their own truck. I mean, there are just things that don't make any sense in the middle of a crisis. You know, to me unload the trucks, unload the ships, unload the containers, get it back, send it back, get that stuff to come back. So I'm in this because this 1.2 trillion is not going to take place in an afternoon. By where I live, there are two bridges that are, you know, state-level bridges that are probably 20 years past their useful life.

John Smallwood (9m 14s):

And they are dangerous. They've been talking about rebuilding these bridges for 10 years, 12 years, almost 20 years. In one case they still don't have a start date to get this thing going. So like, even though we pass this whole bill, when's it really going to start, you know, investing in technology, investing in research, a lot of this money is going to go to research. That's going to take time, but you think about every place that you have to upgrade a railroad, every place you're going to upgrade a station or a new airport or something to that nature of the amount of infrastructure costs that have to go in. So you start to think about it. You know, the engineering firms are going to do really well.

John Smallwood (9m 55s):

And there's been a massive amount of consolidation in the engineering, you know, small little 20 men 100 men engineering firms being gobbled up by the big firms. It's an interesting environment. And if you have government subsidies to do this, there's going to be a lot of money going in that direction. The technology, I mean, think about investing 73 billion in power grids and then electric vehicles and all these other places, that's great for broadband. That's great for, you know, everything that we're doing, but it's ramping up the energy. I mean like, wow, like where's the energy really going to go? Can we all really come back down to free? Like it was last year.

John Smallwood (10m 36s):

I remember everybody was joking. Like, can you take it? No, I won't take it. No, you take it. It was negative at one point, wasn't it negative? Like I'm going to pay you to take it, but where can I store it? The thing that is really bothersome to me is for the average investor, will they have enough money to take advantage of the technology or the infrastructure or the commodities or the natural resources. But I think you're going to see a tremendous amount of, you know, the airlines. If we're going to expand the airports, well, we're going to need better plans. Right. But what do you make a plan with? Right? It's the natural resources. What I thought was really interesting in the bill, there was a water section to improve drinking water, which I thought was a really smart thing because that is our biggest issue.

John Smallwood (11m 28s):

And when you think about the west coast of the United States and the Colorado River and the drying up of it, I'm just going to be careful here. I'm not promoting this, but if you look at the amount of oil that is off the Monterey peninsula and out in California, and you said, okay, we're going to take some of that and we're going to do it selectively and creatively. And then we installed the desalination plant with the profits. You solve the water problem for California, like for everybody. And that's if that water dries up, I mean, that is a significant problem. I mean, that is anarchy because nothing will work. You know you take the power grids down, you got a problem.

John Smallwood (12m 12s):

So what I'm seeing is, you know, can you have enough capacity to say, I'm going to take a portion of my portfolio. I'm going to expose it to natural resources. I'm going to expose it to oil and gas. You remember many, many years ago, probably 2007-2008, they were trying to put a tax on the oil firms because they were the most valuable, there was like an Exxon tax that they were trying to do. Exxon had crossed over, was the most valuable company in the world. And then oil went down and now it's coming back up. But these energy companies, they're not just in the oil business, they're in the energy business. So there's going to be a tremendous amount of acquisitions and mergers and small technology and combining together.

John Smallwood (12m 58s):

But it's the technology companies that I think really benefit from this also. Because you know, what makes a car more efficient technology, right? How do you take a resource from a lower level, turn it into something new and fresh that creates more value? That's how commodities become valuable.

Phil Muscatello (13m 21s):

I noticed that some of the big automakers now are getting involved in the chip business because they can't get the chips. And the chips are such an integral part of cars these days.

John Smallwood (13m 33s):

Yeah. So like everybody's becoming singular manufacturers. It used to be back in the day for dissembling lines would make every part. And they said, well, that's not efficient. Let's go out and we'll get other suppliers. And that was very beneficial for smaller firms and niche and nuance firms. And now it's coming back in place because they just can't get it. But eventually, I think that actually changes. You'll see companies spin-off this type of thing if they can make it successful because they don't want to own that. They want to own where they are. But that's really, what's interesting. Also is companies are not just about the technology. You know, Apple's talking about doing a car now, right? So we're going to have a car and an iPhone and a car with a camera on it.

John Smallwood (14m 15s):

You know, what aspect of our lives are they non-involved in? And when you think about the structure of the ownership of it, you know, the big mutual funds and the big investment companies have large stakes and all these firms, we, the investors are fueling that money. And you know, whether we're across every border, the international stocks from our perspective and, you know, Europe and the emerging markets, we all own everything. Now, you know, for $500, we can buy into these asset classes in an exchange-traded fund or a mutual fund and have that exposure. And I think it's very different for the investors today.

John Smallwood (14m 56s):

And I think you have to think about what am I doing if I'm retired, what strategies am I going to put in place that can help me increase my income? Now, in my mind, there are two ways to increase income or three ways. First thing is to actually make more interest income, which requires more risk. Okay. The second way is to reduce expenses. All right, the third way to reduce taxes, which is an expense, you can kind of say that they're the same thing, but if I can reduce my taxable income and get the same amount of income that I'm receiving today, that's an inflation hedge. This is a point where you have to look at is, and I do this all the time, which is okay, you walk in the front door, your financial strategy is kind of like a chess board.

John Smallwood (15m 46s):

It's in motion. The game is in play. Let's look at that. Let's understand what the components are. Let's understand how it's being taxed, you know, distribution rates. And then how do you move the chess pieces around to reduce that pressure on the plan? And pressure comes from high withdrawal rates, market volatility. Inflation is a pressure, right? High taxes are a pressure. Kids are a pressure, right? And it's, how do I release the pressure on the wealth? And it's not just buying a product. It's looking at the big picture. If I can reduce my taxes and reduce some of my expenses and put my money in better, you know, more diversified 18, 19 asset classes, as opposed to, you know, technology stocks

Phil Muscatello (16m 36s):

With engineering companies, they've always been seen as a bit of an infrastructure play another asset class and a way of generating income. Is that something that you're looking at at the moment, especially with this infrastructure bill?

John Smallwood (16m 47s):

Yeah, because I really think they're going to benefit greatly from this so that their profitability should go up. There should be job expansion in there. Even the education educational, you know, places that specialize in that there's going to be. If people are smart, they're going to head in that direction because that's really the redoing of the world, I think this is really where the benefit comes from and requires architects and engineers, and really smart people and to build stuff of quality that lasts for a long time. And it looks good for a long time because a lot of stuff doesn't look,

Phil Muscatello (17m 25s):

The thing is too, is that with inflation comes the possibility of higher interest rates. Where does the point come where the fed is actually forced to increase interest rates it's closed,

John Smallwood (17m 37s):

But I don't think they can do it. I mean, I would love to see my bank account back up at 5%, right? When I started in the industry, 30 to 31 and a half years ago, he had saved me as cancer and CDs at eight and a half or 9%. And they were down from the highs, right. I remember early 2000, I think you can buy municipal bonds at par at 5%. Like, oh my God. But if you think about it now, can you raise the interest rates in the economy and not completely steal it in his tracks? If I'm a big corporate lender and I'm lending at, you know, some sort of interest rate libor, plus a half a point, and you raise the interest rates and my interest rates go from one and a half percent to 3%.

John Smallwood (18m 30s):

What did it do to my profitability of the company overnight? You know, it's down, down dramatically. You think about some of the things that are going on right now, we're paying a lot more for products because fuel costs are higher, right? You add an interest rate costs to that structure. Like if I'm leasing a fleet of vehicles and we're, we're moving goods and materials from Florida to New Jersey and you know, the cost to carry those vehicles goes up dramatically. I can remember back in the early nineties, you know, the automobile dealers had the floorplan loans and they were 1% a month.

John Smallwood (19m 10s):

Number 12% that it costs the dealers. Now it's probably two or 3%. So the raising of the interest rates has a ripple effect through the economy that I don't know how we raise the interest rates, but even you think about a real estate market, real estate market is up dramatically in the United States and pretty much every single sector in every single location, every single community rent, everything is up. And let's say I bought a house today. And the interest rates on that house were, I locked in at two and a half percent for a 30-year fixed-rate mortgage. And now I'm going to go sell the house and go buy a larger house.

John Smallwood (19m 53s):

And it just rates her for in the future. Less people can afford that house now. So what happens is when less people can afford the house, you're going to see prices drop. And because the ratio is aren't going to work and you know, it was going to be more difficult to do it. I mean, you think about it. You can buy so much more houses today with the lower interest rates. And we have unique tax benefits that are derived with a house like in the United States. If it's your primary residence, you can sell your house every two years for an exclude, a capital gain of 250,000. If you're married, that's a half a million dollars. So like if I bought a house two years ago and I made a lot of money on it, I can sell it tax-free, you're going to start to see a lot of that happening.

John Smallwood (20m 39s):

And as that happens, there'll be more supply. You know, I'm probably wrong on that. Psychological,

Phil Muscatello (20m 46s):

This has got to have an effect on people's thinking there's been over the last few days. Some surveys have come out and I can't remember the exact figure, but a large number of people in the US believe that they're going to be less well off in a year's time. They're not looking at the future with any optimism.

John Smallwood (21m 4s):

Is this sense of like, I'm going to get hit from somewhere. I'm not sure where I'm not sure how something's coming. Something's looming over me. It's going to take me out. I'm going to lose my job. You know, something's going to happen. You know, we can't get supply. I mean, literally, I rented a car on one of the big sites. I didn't rent it because it was crazy. We're going on a family vacation. We're going to sneak away for a few days. Well, all the rental companies sold their cars and now they're getting them back on, but there's a lack of supply. So the rental cars are the highest they've ever been. Like, there's a point where you and I get priced out of what we normally buy. And that's what people are afraid of.

John Smallwood (21m 43s):

Like going out to dinner has become a very expensive proposition. I was talking to one of the local restaurant tours the other day. He's got a couple of restaurants and one's extremely high-end and he has a big steak. That's a $64 steak. That's on the menu. His cost now is $60 for this $64 steak. It used to be, you know, he didn't really tell me what it was probably in the twenties or $15. And now it's $60. He's keeping it on the menu because it's like a leader at the point. But he's like, at what point can I not sell the steak? He took steak off his two other restaurants. Like, it's not there. It's not selling because he just can't make any money with it. And they'll sell you pasta and make a lot more money.

John Smallwood (22m 25s):

And that's what the fear is. People feel like they're going to get rolled over by inflation. There's a sense that the real estate market is going to collapse just because it's gone up so much. Like you can't get a car, you can't get to work. I mean, it's just, there's a point where there's a fear of, we're not going to have the same income or my pension is going to have a problem or something we're going to get taxed. And that's the fear right now is that people are starting to see that the infrastructure bill is supposed to be paid for through the bill back better bill. Right? And that started off as 3.2 trillion. And it's now down to two something, it'll probably be one something. And there's a lot of odds are saying nothing's going to get done because there are too many layers in there.

John Smallwood (23m 9s):

And people are starting to understand that who's going to pay for it. And even if it's targeted at people that make over 400,000, there will be less people making 400,000 because there will be layoffs. The corporations will not be able to sustain it right now. You can get a job. It's the best job market we have seen. And people aren't getting them. I literally talked to clients every single day and they can't get enough people to work in big corporations as small corporations. Like just send us some people that are qualified and we will hire you.

Phil Muscatello (23m 45s):

If you can string a sentence together, send them over.

John Smallwood (23m 50s):

Can you send me an email that I can read? Oh my God, I can read the email. You haven't,

Phil Muscatello (23m 55s):

You got a job,

John Smallwood (23m 57s):

But seriously, there's that very popular person. A few years ago in newsletters was talking about a melt up, right? It seems like he might've been right. Like we are in the middle of a massive melt-up where everything becomes more expensive and it's at what point does it fall? And where are we standing? You know, my grandfather used to tell me, you know, ready money available money is Aladdin's lamp. And I was like, what are you talking about? You know, he's like, if you have money and there are opportunities that exist, you can take advantage of it, if you don't have ready money available, money, liquid money, you're not going to take advantage of it. And so many people are leveraged. Like a lot of these house purchases or cash offers, they came from, you know, selling of assets are financed often, you know, asset-based loans, interest rates go up, stock market falls, boom, big problems.

John Smallwood (24m 49s):

So standard deviation, we're going way out there. If we can get this, we can get it as infrastructure bill in play, get people back to work. I mean the unemployment numbers I'm dumbfounded by them. They don't make any sense to me. I know so many people that are out of work still, you know, the companies just can't find the right employees. People don't want to commute. People are changing the way they think, but the bottom line is there's a tremendous opportunity. If we get these people back into the workforce, there's a way that you get out of this and everything's fine. I don't know. I'm a little confused.

Phil Muscatello (25m 22s):

Yeah. It is confusing. Let's become a macro conversation that we're having. Isn't it? This is what macro people talk about in the finance industry. These huge title forces that are pushing us little fish around in the undertow and we've got no control over it.

John Smallwood (25m 36s):

Yeah. You know, we tend to think about micro, right? Like the micro is, Hey, I go, am I Kraft singles and not to use a brand, but they're more expensive. Right. And there's less than the pack that's micro. The macro is the big picture that caused it. Like what really caused well, the transportation and you know, all these different things and the lack of employees. And there's not as much stuff to sell. Like you can't get certain products because there are not enough people to make them. It's always macro. And it's the macro economic environment that if we apply the right forces to, in the right thinking, we come out of this beautifully. In my personal opinion, I think we're way over steering the ship too much investment by the forces like money.

John Smallwood (26m 23s):

That's not going into efficient use, you know, the PPP loans and you know, all the QE that we've been doing, there's a lot of waste. There was a lot of waste. There was a lot of money that was, you know, not used appropriately. And you know, a lot of this stuff, he was supposed to get paid, you know, part of this as an IRS enforcement to go after the money that not getting tax well, that's something that should be happening every single year. I mean, we all pay our fair share of taxes and some of us don't. And it's those things that if you collected the tax revenue that was supposed to be collected, yes, that would be good. There are good components in this, in everything. But then there are a lot of waste also.

John Smallwood (27m 3s):

And that's the thing that if you can figure out a way to prevent the waste and to really look at the macro, like, is this dollar spent going to create eight, $9 worth of opportunity? Or is it going to just stifle us now you get into opinions and biases and you know, defending your position and who knows

Phil Muscatello (27m 24s):

That's right. Yeah. So you've got an offer of an obligation, free wealth curve, conversation call, and people can hear you're talking all about this. Tell us about that offer.

John Smallwood (27m 33s):

So one of the things that we want to do is our job. You know, we're financial advisors, we're in the business of helping people create long-term financial plans and constantly refining and refreshing them. Right? The wealth curve conversation is a free, no-obligation call with one of the advisors here. And it's going to go through you and your family. It's going to go through your income, your job. If you own your own firm, we're going to talk about the partners and the structures find out about taxes. Where are you saving money? What's your debt structure? Like, where are the assets?

John Smallwood (28m 14s):

What's the future obligations? Hey, I got four kids. I've got to put them through school. You know, those things are just through the roof, right? And then how well is your wealth defended? You know, what's the defense like, do you have the proper amount of umbrella and life insurance and disability insurance? And those are things that people forget about every single day. They forget about, you know, it's not just about rate of return. It's about the macro picture in your plans. You can go on the website, Smallwood, sign up for that. It'll schedule it right there. You can call us at (732) 542-1565. Talk to the person that answers the phone. She'll get you scheduled. But the goal of the call is to really see, are we the right team for you?

John Smallwood (28m 59s):

And are you the right team for us? It's kind of like you sift us. We sift you. And we make sure that we're good. And then we figure out whether or not we can work together. Our job, our goal is to work with a lot of people and a lot of families and build a relationship. We're not in this business for an afternoon. We're in this business. I mean, I'll hit in 32 years and I feel like I'm the, I'm still about two years into it. Then I have kids that are getting married. So like, they're like, come on that. Yeah, seriously. But I still feel like there's so much growth and there's so much opportunity. And then if you focus on the right decisions in your plan and you reduce the pressures and you increase savings and you have the right lifestyle number, regardless of what inflation is.

John Smallwood (29m 43s):

And regardless of what things are, you should be able to accumulate wealth and live a great life. We live in, you know, the greatest point in the history of the world, the amount of technology that is coming. I mean, even the medical advancements that came out the amount of money that went into medical research, and the residuals that have come out of that, those strategic byproducts. Right? Think about all the medical advancements that we haven't seen yet. Everybody was focused on, you know, vaccination, vaccination, but we were in the laboratory. I mean, where's that game that's coming. That's right. And that's an area, you know, life extension, all these things like there's going to be some amazing stuff.

John Smallwood (30m 26s):

So, you know, I'm pro-equities. I think it's great. Long-term savings accounts, buying houses, enjoying life, you know, doing the right things, putting your kids through school, you know, however you do it.

Phil Muscatello (30m 37s):

That's the basics that we're after. So tell us the name of the podcast as well and how people can listen in.

John Smallwood (30m 43s):

So it's wealth curve talk with John Smallwood and my partner, Edward bow just created one called jumping the wealth curve. He's a motorcycle guy. So it's a cool little visual and he's doing him, and the idea is that we're different, but yet we're, we're talking the same thing, but we appeal to different people. And the way we approach some of the thinking is different as well. But the outcome is the same. All right. So the podcast is on. You could actually subscribe to it on whatever medium that you're downloading podcasts it's available on the website. Also, you can see it. There's a webinar that goes on every two to three weeks where we try to get some really interesting hosts from one of the big institutions to help us be a little smarter, ask us good questions.

John Smallwood (31m 33s):

And you know, my thing always is collective, can we gain enough information? That's going to change our perspective on something or enlighten us or improve it or make us better and just keep getting better. That's what the goal is, is provide better service, provide better, you know, planning. Like I see so many people stuck with the decisions that they made and they're defending their old decisions, as opposed to saying new information. Let me rethink this. What I have done this the same way today, based on the information that I have today that I did, you know, there's pros and cons to each decision and you've got to rethink it. You got to rethink what you're doing and get ready.

John Smallwood (32m 13s):

John Smith.

Phil Muscatello (32m 14s):

Thank you very much for joining me today. And it's been great having you back on

John Smallwood (32m 18s):

It was awesome. I always enjoy this and I look forward to our next conversation. Thank you, Phil.

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