KYLE HEDMAN | From Band of Traders Podcast

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Kyle Hedman from Band of Traders Podcast

Join us as we dive into a candid conversation with Kyle Hedman, the voice behind the rebranded Band of Traders Podcast, formerly known as Two Bulls in a China Shop. In this unscripted episode, we peel back the curtain on the emotional rollercoaster of trading, the importance of risk management, and the psychological battles that traders face.

As the calendar flips to 2024, Kyle shares his journey from exploring stocks to delving into the world of futures. He discusses the value of paper trading, the impact of trading psychology, and the evolution of his own trading process. We also touch on the challenges of maintaining realistic expectations in the trading universe, where the lure of quick riches often overshadows the gritty reality of the markets.

But it's not all charts and trades – our conversation meanders through the streets of Peoria, the festive traditions down under, and even the potential of nuclear power with a nod to Miss America, Grace Stanke. We reflect on the state of the world, the sense of community in trading circles, and the importance of honesty in an industry rife with overpromises.

Trading isn't just about numbers and charts; it's a psychological journey. Kyle opens up about the importance of understanding and accepting the emotions that come with trading. He emphasizes the need for awareness and the ability to negotiate with oneself to maintain a clear head and make sound decisions. This episode is a masterclass in emotional intelligence for traders.

Risk management is another cornerstone of successful trading that Kyle discusses in detail. He breaks down the concept into manageable parts, explaining how to set acceptable loss limits and the significance of having a recovery plan. Whether you're a seasoned trader or just starting, Kyle's approach to risk management will resonate with you and possibly transform the way you trade.

The episode also touches on the lighter side of trading, with anecdotes about name changes and the camaraderie within the trading community. You'll hear about the rebranding journey of Band of Traders and how a listener's suggestion led to a name that encapsulates the spirit of inclusivity and collective growth in trading.

As we welcome the new year, we ponder the lessons learned, the growth experienced, and the aspirations for the months ahead. So, whether you're sweltering in Sydney's summer or cozying up in a cooler climate, tune in for an episode that's as much about trading as it is about life itself.


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Kyle Christmas

Stocks for beginners. The first thing you have to start doing is exploring emotions

Phil: Stocks for beginners. Phil Muscatello and Finpods are authorized reps of money Sherpa. The information in this podcast is general in nature and doesn't take into account your personal situation.

Kyle: The first thing you have to start doing is really thinking and exploring where these emotions are coming from. Try to understand what they're there to protect you from, and then accepting that that's what they're there for. They have positive intent, like, know, uh, I tend to want to move my stops when trade, uh, starts to go in my direction. Uh, what's the positive intent there? The positive intent is to try to protect myself from loss.

Phil Muscatello: Welcome back to stocks for beginners podcast

Phil: Hi, and welcome back to stocks for beginners. I'm phil Muscatello, and this is holiday season for most of us around the world. And so I'm welcoming to the podcast an old friend, Kyle Hedman from, well, it used to be two bulls in a china shop, but has now been rebranded and renamed to band of traders. Is that correct? Hello, Kyle.

Kyle: That is correct. Yes. And that was a whole big old fiasco. I think we went through two name changes in 24 hours because a, uh, listener caught the episode where we were discussing the name change and, uh, suggested a much better one.

Phil: What was the suboptimal name change?

Kyle: Uh, we ended up landing on true trading because the idea was like we were trying to show what the real trading life was really about. Like the kind of things that nobody really talks about, the struggles, the lessons that you have to learn every day. But then when he came with that one, it's like, yeah, this should incorporate the idea of including everybody and. Yeah, it kind of does, I guess.

Phil: Band of traders, basically. We're talking here now, aren't we? Yeah, it's kind of got a, uh, bit of a Jimi Hendrix feel to it. That's what a band of know.

Kyle: Yeah, I was thinking more like band of brothers, but.

Phil: Oh, well, Jimi Hendrix in the military. Well, Jimi Hendrix was in the army, wasn't he? Something like that.

Kyle: I think he was, but, uh, I don't think it was by choice.

Phil: Yeah, I think he just ended up, um, using it as an excuse to keep rehearsing guitar. Yeah, for someone like Hendrix, I guess. Look, let's just start, ah, like I said, this is a totally, um, unprepared episode we're recording before Christmas. We are going to be, um, releasing this sort of early January. So you'll be hearing this in early January.

In Sydney the weather's getting nice and warm and summery

So we might talk about Christmas. We might not talk about it, but I'm here sweltering in Sydney the weather's getting nice and warm and summery, but I'm assuming it's, um, not quite the same where you are.

Kyle: It's actually been decently warm. But, uh, I think what we consider warm and what you consider warm might be a little bit different.

Phil: Yeah. Oh, my God. Are we going to have to start talking between celsius and fahrenheit?

Kyle: I was just trying to figure out if I was going to. I just double it. That's close enough.

Phil: Okay, well, we had a day the other day which was what, 38 degrees celsius? Uh, no, be more than double.

Kyle: That's pretty hot.

Phil: Now we get hotter. Isn't that much hotter than. Yeah, we do.

Kyle: Trying to think of what the hottest I've been in. I used to live in, uh, Phoenix, Arizona, and. Mhm, honestly, we had like 120s, but the conversion to that is probably what, like 40s in celsius?

Phil: I, um, guess so. I don't know. What I do know is, um, 32 degrees fahrenheit is zero celsius. Yeah. 48. Okay.

Kyle: 38 is 100.

Phil: Yeah.

Kyle: 100 degrees. That's pretty spicy. Do you get humidity out there too, or is it just high, very high humidity?

Phil: Yeah, we're top of that here in Sydney.

Kyle: That makes it way worse. Sounds like Houston weather. Feels like you just got out of the shower all day long.

Your show focuses on trading stocks and options, but lately it's diversified

Phil: So tell us about, um, the band of traders. How's it been going this year? Um, well, let's talk about you a little bit personally, because you're trying to use this opportunity to learn about trading stocks and options and so forth. Um, tell us a bit about yourself and why you're doing it and how you're doing it and what you're learning.

Kyle: Well, it started out with stocks about three years ago, and I think we were dabbling with options when we first crossed paths with you. Lately, it's been a lot of diving into futures and trying to learn and understand those. Before the rebrand, uh, we did a really great, uh, kind of like an intro into futures tradings with some other established traders. And we kind of like the feel of that, the structure of that. Uh, we've done some roundtables in the past where we get some experts and some newbie traders to get to ask the questions that they want to ask. And so that's kind of been like the feel for the new show where we're trying to just open it up to get as many people involved, ah, to ask those questions that sometimes you feel kind of stupid asking them what actually is an options contract. You can't just pop into a room and ask that without feeling, I don't belong here. But we all have those questions. We all have those things that we want to know. So we're just trying to give people a chance to be able to be a part of those communities, part of those discussions, to share the things they're working on and get feedback from other people. Because the more eyes you get on stuff, the more people you can bounce ideas on, just the better you end up forming it for yourself. Right.

M. Ross: Our focus has been on shifting everything to process related

Phil: So what's it like? Um, trying to control expectations, because a lot of people, when they approach the idea of trading in options or stocks, they think they're going to become masters of the universe. They're going to quickly become, make lots and lots of money. How have you responded to that?

Kyle: I've just passed on a guy who requested to be interviewed after looking over his website and seeing exactly that. Grow your account from four k to a million in five years. You can do it. M. Yeah, it can be done, but if that's what you're focusing on, if you're focusing on results, as far as PNL goes, uh, your decision making process is already compromised because that shouldn't be what plays in, like, good results are a result of good risk management. So we've been trying to shift, I shouldn't say trying means you're fighting, you're not doing. Our focus has been on shifting everything to process related. Am I following my process? Am I entering according to my plan? Am I following my take profit strategies? Am I executing the way I said I was going to? And if you can say that at the end of the day, then the PNL is going to reflect that, uh, that's been the biggest shift over the last year, I think.

Phil: Yeah. And it's interesting that you talked about, um, someone who wanted to come on the podcast and you checked out their website. Because I've realized doing this, um, my stock market investing program is I can just fill it up with trading companies, trading ideas. I'm not even sure what the generic term is for these kind of things, but it's just people who want to just sell, uh, their course in trading, and that's where they're making their money. Um, actually, this is the first time I've talked about trading in ages, because I've banned traders on the podcast apart from you, because we can talk honestly about this as well, and we can talk about the struggles and that there are ways of doing this, but it's not a path for everyone, really. You've got to get your money act together. Have most, um, of your money in property or bonds or long term etfs.

Kyle: Or managed funds pay off your credit card debt first.

Phil: Yeah, pay down all those really sensible things. Sorry I said managed funds. They're actually mutual funds in the United States. I should just correct myself there.

Kyle: That's something that Eric Smolinsky harps on a lot. I've done, uh, quite a few collaborations with him.

Phil: Um, ah, I've had Eric on the podcast as well.

Kyle: Eric's phenomenal, and his big advice to someone who's starting out is to spend that time saving, uh, while you're learning paper trade and save and save and save until you're ready to deploy it.

Phil: Do you find paper trading helpful? Has that, um, idea M worked in trying to hone the kind of trading methodology you might be using?

Kyle: I find it to be very helpful, yes. Uh, between paper trading and back testing, paper, um, trading just kind of gives you a bit of a feel of what it's like to sit through a trade. It makes you pay a little more attention to it. You can see how it reacts intraday, whereas as you're doing back testing, you're kind of usually just looking at like, okay, I would have entered here, I would have closed here. You don't get to actually sit through the moves in that scenario. Now, the downside is that, uh, with the paper trade, obviously there's nothing tied to it. There's no risk. So it's really hard to work on those emotions that come when you're sitting through a drawdown or when the trade is going your way and you're like, oh, it's coming up on my take, profit. Should I try to squeeze a little bit more out of this, or should I just go ahead and get paid here now? So those are the kinds of things that paper trading is like the next step. To help you get to that point, you almost have to live trade stuff after you've done the proving of the edge, just to make sure that you can actually recreate those results forward. Testing.

Phil: How do you find the psychology working on you? Because, of course, once it's real money involved, and like you say, it's going up, can I get more profits? It's going down. Should I kill myself?

Kyle: Has it worked for me? Not the way I'd like it to. I still fall into those traps. But I think the difference is that nowadays I'm aware of what's going on. I can pinpoint it. Like, m something doesn't feel right today. What is going on? Oh, I'm fearful. Why am I fearful? I just took two losses. Now, uh, I'm going to be questioning everything and not thinking quite as clearly as I was before. So just having the awareness of some of those things I think is really helpful to be able to key you in on like maybe I need to take a step back and recenter for a minute.

You also briefly alluded to risk management as being an important part of this strategy

Phil: You also briefly alluded to risk management as being an important part of this. How do you approach risk management?

Kyle: I think risk management is the most important part of everything when it comes to trying to actively trade or even with your investments. You need to know what your acceptable losses are, how much you're willing to risk on every trade, and it needs to be an amount that you can actually let go of when you're actually putting the trade on. Some people may say my plan costs for $500, but if you're constantly thinking about like mhm, that's my car payment, uh, becomes a little bit different when you're throwing that on there. So I always hear people say if the risk is too much, that's a good sign to size down, cut your size in half and see if you can stomach that a little bit better. But as far as overall, you should have a plan that involves your risk per trade. You should have a plan that involves your risk per day, your risk per week, and then what you do when those situations hit. If I hit my Max daily drawdown, what do I do to respond from that? What's my recovery plan? If I hit a weekly drawdown, how long do I shut down and do I need to go back and revisit my strategies? Do I need to double check and make sure everything's still within tolerances? It should be probably the most well defined part of your plan, I would think.

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Why do you put yourself through this? Um, it's a good question

Why do you put yourself through this?

Kyle: Um, it's a good question. Uh, I think it's just because I love the challenge of it. Like, every day is different. You don't walk in and see the same exact scenarios. I mean, obviously, what's the saying? History doesn't repeat, but it often rhymes. Uh, that's a lot of what trading is. Every day is different, but not completely different to the point where you're just completely lost every day. It's the challenge of problem solving. Like, okay, what's going on today? What do I see? I get to really apply my mind in, ah, ways that I'd never done it before. Like even working at a troubleshooting job, uh, in the steel industry, which we've talked about in the past. I thought that was high stakes. Yeah, exactly. And then you get to the trading game and it's like every minute is like that. Whereas in the steel industry, it's just when everything breaks, then you're in that mode. But for 12 hours a day, sometimes you're just sitting with your feet up on the desk and things are chugging along and making money. You don't get very many of those in the trading world.

How do you deal with the emotions? Um, because you can't push emotions down

Phil: How do you deal with the emotions? Um, because you can't push emotions down. You can't push them away. They're just there. No matter what you try and do. Is it, um, just having the process that helps you to control the emotions? Or do you take a lot of, uh, diazepam?

Kyle: Well, uh, I would say that control is the wrong word. If, uh, you're trying to control your emotions, that means you're fighting them. Um, when we talked to rich, he gave us kind, uh, of like his methodology. And step one is going to be awareness. Step one is always awareness. Step two is going to be acceptance. And then step three is agency. So what that means is the first thing you have to start doing is really thinking and exploring where these emotions are coming from. Try to understand what they're there to protect you from, and then accepting that that's what they're there for. They have positive intent. Like, oh, I tend to want to move my stops when trade, uh, starts to go in my direction. Uh, what's the positive intent there? The positive intent is to try to protect myself from loss, it's like, okay, so now that I've known that, now that I accept that, now I can go back and look and see what the actual stats are, and I can actually negotiate with myself. I could say, hey, look, you're doing this to protect me, but really what you're doing is you're hurting the overall process, because now we're not capturing all these winners that we get stopped out at break even on. And when you can have that kind of, it sounds foo foo, but when you can have that kind of discussion with your subconscious, to kind of negotiate with it, get him on board with what your plans are, I think that makes for a much, much more, uh, effective plan for trying to understand and work with your emotions.

After doing a series with rich Friesen, uh, that's been fairly eye opening

Phil: So from the beginning of 2023 to right now at the end and the beginning of 2024, um, is there any major things that you feel that you've learned or mastered, um, that's helped you over this year?

Kyle: I would say I have a much better understanding of psychology. After doing that series with rich Friesen, uh, that's been fairly eye opening. And even when we first talked to know three years ago, he told us all this stuff, and I kind of approached it with an open mind, but I don't know that I necessarily fully embraced it at that point. I think once you start to see some of those results pay off, um, once you start to really understand yourself, and this goes beyond trading, which is what's really, I think, the crazy interesting benefit throughout the whole thing. I've become a much better person over the last year just because I've been willing to explore myself, if that makes sense.

Phil: A better person in what way?

Kyle: Um, I'm more honest. I'm more open when I'm conversing with my friends and family, my wife. If something bothers one of us and we need to have that hard conversation, I'm not as quick to run away from it like I used to be. Um, more willing to engage and really just kind of think, and I think, too, about what other people's, when they get emotional, like, what is the reaction stemming from? Why are they getting emotional at this? Because a lot of times they're involuntary. Right?

Phil: That's right. Uh, I got to say, it's been a hard year at this end. It's been a real.

Kyle: Oh, really?

Phil: Yeah. Uh, just, uh, in terms of the investing, it's been a bit hard because I invest on the australian share market. I've been using a methodology. One of my guests, um, I may have talked about him before but he's got a fundamental way of investing and, um, I've been following his trades. It's basically a follow trading system. And, um, um. The australian share market has just been so flat over the year. There's been a bit of up, it's been bit of down. Far less volatility in the US market. But the US market's ending the year. I'm not sure what it's going to be like in early January because things change so much, but it's just been such an upward trajectory in the US.

Kyle: We're also coming up on an election cycle too, I think. So I wouldn't be betting against that anytime soon.

Phil: Yeah, but does that really have, um, that much of an effect on markets?

Kyle: I think it does, uh, really what the correlation is, but I think it does.

Phil: God, you guys take so long to have an election. It's like six weeks here. It's just everything's going. And then six weeks it's called. That's when it all happens. And then you have the election, then it's over.

Kyle: Uh, let's see. The market has been favorable overall in 20 of the 24 election years from 1928 to 2020. Uh, negative returns only four times.

Phil: Interesting, right? Why do you think that is?

Kyle: Do you want to get tinfoil hat time?

Phil: Oh, yeah, love a tinfoil hat. How many people are wearing tinfoil. How many people are wearing tinfoil hats these days? What's happened to the world?

Kyle: I don't know, but man, it seems like what they do.

Phil: You find that there are so many people who are. There's so many people now who are just. I'm not sure if it's conspiracy theories. This is both on the right and the left of politics, but people have gone insane.

Kyle: I think it's with the rise of the Internet now, you can find a chat room anywhere for somebody who believes your crazy theories, or you can find.

Phil: Someone else's crazy theories to subscribe to.

Kyle: Flat earthers. I think my daughter one year came home from high school, told me that she didn't believe in space. No. Let's go grab the telescope. Space is real. It is. We're not playing that game in this house.

Rich Friesen: I like Peoria a lot more than Arizona

Phil: So, um, I also was interested when you're doing those interviews with, uh. Rich, is it rich? Rich.

Kyle: Rich Friesen. Yeah.

Phil: Rich Friesen. Yeah. That, um, you're in. Just always. When I was a child, um, my parents had a record collection and one of the songs in their collection I used to love was, um. Um. I wish I was in Peoria. Do you know that song?

Kyle: No.

Phil: Oh, how I wish I was in Peoria. Uh, Peoria, uh, tonight. Oh, how I miss the Goyles in Peoria. Uh, you got to sound like that. Goyles in Peoria tonight. Oh, you can pick a morning Gloria, uh, right off the sidewalks of Peoria.

Kyle: Uh, that's not my experience.

Phil: That's a really old song that's been covered so many times. The premise is these guys are on a ship that's know, and as it's sinking and everyone's panicking, suddenly go, I.

Kyle: Wish I was in Peoria, the center of Illinois, where there's no, uh, water except for the river.

Phil: Yeah, that's right. You're not going to be on a sinking ship in Peoria. What's Peoria like? What's it like to live there?

Kyle: Um, it's like going in a time capsule, if that makes sense.

Phil: Yeah.

Kyle: Tell us about lived in a modern city. It's like going back 100 years. You see all the old brick buildings from when the industry was big here in the 1880s to early 19 hundreds, pure. Used to be really prosperous down, and it's just kind of been on the downhill since then. Um, there's aspects that I like. I like the kind of throwback feel of it, but it does sometimes kind of feel like you're driving into an apocalypse. Uh, ruins of, like, a major Metropolitan sometimes. Not to pull some pictures, but incentive.

Phil: To you, it has a lot of historic buildings. Does.

Kyle: Yeah. And then Richard Pryor is from.

Phil: Okay, wow. Richard Pryor, uh, what was that great line of his? You know, remember when he, um, set, um, himself on fire cooking, um, cocaine or something, and he said, I don't know what happened. I had a glass of milk. I had a cookie. I put the cookie in the milk. Kaboom.

Kyle: M didn't he, at the end of that special, too, flick a match and say, this is an impression of himself running down the street and threw.

Phil: A. What a comedian. But, uh, what industry is there? What keeps the economy going in Peoria?

Kyle: Used, uh, to be caterpillar. Caterpillar's got really big presence, uh, here, but they tried to shift it to Chicago, and I'm not sure that if they're not still trying to get out now, um, Illinois has not been very favorable as far as taxes go, but they still have a big caterpillar presence. Um, Keystone, uh, which was the steel mill I used to work at, now owned by liberty, um, that's another big employer. Uh, there's a lot of actual industry out here. They've been around for 100 years. And the buildings look like that.

Phil: So does it still have a main street, a high street with lots of shops in it? Or is it still you have to drive out of town to the box stores?

Kyle: The, uh, river walk is pretty nice. Go walk along, uh, the Illinois river. They do a good job of keeping that vitalized. And, um, they actually have a lot of really cool stuff in the summertime. Free concerts and things. Like. Mean, I like it a lot more than I liked Arizona. People are a little bit more friendly than they are there. Weather's, um, more my speed. I like the colder, better than the heat nowadays. Although, ask me that again in a couple weeks when it snows. That's still the case.

Phil: Well, this can be one of our, um, quixotic, uh, crusades. Like, um, revitalizing the theme song of Peoria, which I've just given to you.

Kyle: Is that the actual theme song of Peoria? Because that's what it sounds. It should be. Sounds like a high school band song.

Grace Stanky is promoting nuclear power as a clean energy future

Phil: But then, of course, we've had another one of our failed crusades. And that's to promote Grace Stanky from, um, Miss America.

Kyle: I tried to go back and see if I can figure out how effective our campaign has been. Because she's over 5000 followers now. And I want to say she was.

Phil: Significantly less than 2000 before we started. Yeah. So just to remind listeners that, uh, Grace Stanky is the current reigning Miss America. And she's also a nuclear engineer. And she's doing a lot of work promoting nuclear power as a clean energy future. But, um, she's studiously ignored us in our. I know, campaign to promote her. Especially on Twitter.

Kyle: Especially after we doubled her, uh, since we last brought it up.

Phil: I mean, she's doing a great job going out there and, um, canvassing for nuclear power. I mean, I don't know how you feel about. But you've worked with nuclear close up, haven't you?

Kyle: Yeah. I think nuclear power sounds more complex than it actually is. It's really the same technology that we use with coal or similar. I mean, it's just a hot rock that makes steam and spins a turbine. Uh, it's. What do you do with the stuff after you've used it? That's the problem.

Phil: Well, must be able to do always, because Australia produces, I think we've got the largest uranium reserves in the world, possibly, or the second largest. And we actually export lots and lots of uranium. We have a law against whoever has nuclear reactors. I guess.

Kyle: That'S right. There's different grades too for that. And weapons grade. So North Korea is probably not Colin.

Phil: We sell them out the back door to North Korea and Iran. Uh, just joking. But we've got a ban against nuclear power here and we've got one nuclear reactor and that's for medical isotopes just here in the suburbs of Sydney. In fact, you sort of say that we've got a nuclear reactor here in Sydney in the suburbs and. Oh, really? We didn't know that.

Kyle: Right.

Phil: Yeah. Been there for about 50 years, no problems at all.

Kyle: Right.

Phil: Uh, but it's.

Kyle: Yeah, I don't know. You don't hear about them unless there's something really goes wrong.

Phil: Yeah. I mean, it's always made sense to me, the idea of nuclear power. And, um, I've got this fantasy and there are some people who've been pushing that because Australia is vast, with lots of empty spaces and geologically stable, that we should also start, um, an economy, a lot of economic activity based on taking other people's nuclear waste and burying it in a very safe way, as well as exporting it and also becoming, um, world leaders in nuclear technology.

Kyle: If we could ever get rocket ships to not blow up, just launch it to the sun, help, uh, keep the sun going for a little bit longer. But what about Fusion, though? I mean, fusion is getting really close to being commercially viable. Is that, uh, okay with Australia? Would they allow one of those plants to operate?

Phil: Who knows? People get scared about whenever you say that nuclear. And the thing is, about nuclear fusion isn't the saying it's always about 20 years from being ready to go.

Kyle: Right. But, uh, I've seen some companies that say that they claim to be, uh, ready to be commercially viable and actually putting out usable amounts of power in the next couple of years, I don't believe them.

Phil: But no, that's right.

Kyle: It's nice to see that it's close.

Phil: But we do have a working system that does work. And as long as you don't, uh, put them on fault lines or in tsunami zones and, um, maintain them well, I mean, even the worst nuclear disasters we've had, like, know, you look at Chernobyl today and they've got very high levels, but there's a forest and there's animals in the forest and they all look sort of quite normal.

Kyle: Yeah. Did you watch the documentary they did on that? Not the documentary, the, uh, miniseries that they made. It was. No. Did you say it was really good, but they way overdramatized the effects of some of the stuff that had happened there. Like, if you go back and read how actually damaging the event was. It's surprising how many people survived. Some of the stuff that they had to go through. I think things like that don't help when it comes to trying to promote it as something that's probably better for the environment than a coal plant or an oil or some of the other stuff we use.

Australia says it can't go nuclear because it's too expensive

What's Australia's hang up like? Why do you guys not allow it?

Phil: Uh, it's just been a long time political thing on the left of politics that, um, it seemed to be very unsafe. The current government say, ah, we can't go nuclear, even though in cop 28 currently with the meeting, there's a lot of countries that have signed up to, um, produce a lot more nuclear power. And Australia is still saying, oh, it's too expensive, it doesn't work. We're going to be building offshore wind turbines and more solar panels.

Kyle: Offshore wind turbines are pretty solid, though.

Phil: Yeah.

Kyle: You get pretty consistent wind out there, don't you?

Phil: Possibly. Somewhere it's just more the transmission lines, because you've got to completely rebuild the transmission of power infrastructure. And these transmission lines have to go over people's properties as well. And so there's all that oversight that needs to be done. And, um, the protests from local communities who don't want power lines going across.

Kyle: Their farmlands, people who think, um, the magnetic radiation is going to affect their brains.

Phil: I don't think it's even tinfoil hat territory. Um, it's just, they don't want the power lines there. They're just ugly.

Kyle: Um, yeah, I could see that.

Phil: It's their land and they have a.

Kyle: Right, especially in a place like Australia, where I assume that's kind of like the big pride and joy is the pristine nature of your.

Phil: Yeah, yeah, that's right. Um, they're building, um, offshore, uh, wind turbines, um, just off Newcastle, which is just north of Sydney, which is the largest coal port in the world. We export more coal from there, but, um, one of the reasons why they're building it there is because the power stations are there and, um, the infrastructure exists, but I can't see the coal being stopped anytime soon.

Kyle: Sounds like we need to change, um, our strategy for Greece and try to just get her to go to Australia.

Miss America doesn't capture the public imagination like it once did

Phil: And give some, I think so miss America. Does Australia.

Kyle: M workshop that title?

Phil: Yes.

Kyle: Okay.

Phil: But Miss America used to be a.

Kyle: Big thing, didn't it?

Phil: I mean, it's obviously not a. It doesn't capture the public imagination like it might have once in the past.

Kyle: No, when you had four channels to watch 20 years ago, pretty limited on what you could actually pay attention to. Now you got so many options that, uh, we're starting to see that maybe network doesn't make the best stuff.

How many people live in Peoria, how big is it

Phil: So tell me, in America, in a town like yours, how many people live in Peoria, how big is it?

Kyle: Um, let me check. Somebody had asked me that before. I want to say it was like comparable to Tucson, but that probably doesn't help you. Oh, how I miss 113. Yeah, it's about 100k. That's in the metro.

Phil: Do people get on well? I mean, we get this view overseas that America, everyone's at each other's throats. Uh, you can't have any kind of political discussions. There's all those memes about what, um, the uncle's going to say at, ah, thanksgiving dinner.

Kyle: Uh, I mean, everybody has one member of that family where just very opinionated and don't want to listen to anybody else. And politics can be kind of a touchy subject. But I think in all honesty, you got 10% on either side. That's like the vocal extreme, and then the other 80% lives in the middle and doesn't really care enough to engage. So you only ever hear the extremes. Those are the only people that ever make it on, uh, the news segments or that's all they ever promote because that's what gets the clicks, that's what gets people upset and angry. But I think the majority of people are just like us. They just want to live their life and don't want the government overstepping their reach and leave me alone. I'll leave you alone.

Phil: So, Peoria, you'd consider it middle America of sorts, of some sort, wouldn't you?

Kyle: Yeah, it's midwest. Um, yeah.

Phil: People get on well with each other?

Kyle: Yeah, for the most part. Um, trying to think if I've had any bad experiences. Not really.

Phil: Is it a safe place to live?

Kyle: Depends on where. But that's going to be anywhere, right? You got your areas of town that you don't usually go to, uh, unless you're feeling.

Phil: I find that really hard to conceive of. I mean, there's no place in Sydney that I would worry about going to. I mean, there's some of know, you might feel completely safe there.

Kyle: But really, every time people say that I've gone through some of those spots and you feel like a stranger, it almost, sometimes feels like another world, but never actually felt in danger. But I mean, I haven't been to some of the, like, there's places in Detroit that I've heard where you get a flat tire. They'll pay for it. The city will. Because they don't want you stopping. They want you just get the fuck out of that place. They will not, uh, send repair crews to those.

Phil: Wow. It's. It's just hard to conceive, know? I feel so safe here in Sydney in comparison.

Kyle: You think with as much wealth as this country has, there wouldn't be so much poverty, especially in so localized like that. We do the best we can with what we got. Right.

Phil: Yeah. Now this is being released, like I said, after Christmas. What's your Christmas looking like?

Kyle: Um, well, we had, uh, daughters come in for Thanksgiving. I think that was more of the bigger celebration. Uh, a lot of times my wife likes to put together some type of thing to do for the family, whether it be an escape room. Um, are you familiar with those? Do you guys have those in Australia?

Phil: Um, what the game, like, it's a game where you have to escape out of the room. Yeah.

Kyle: They have, like, actual places here where you can go.

Phil: Where they set up an as well. Next to the axe throwing centers, usually.

Kyle: Yeah, exactly.

Phil: They seem to go together, don't they? Uh, yeah.

Kyle: Right. Especially with the drinking and the axe throwing.

Phil: Yeah. With a brewery next door as well.

Kyle: Right.

Phil: Very well planned.

Kyle: Uh, sometimes she'll do something like that or she'll make a scavenger hunt or. One year we did our own version of Taskmaster, which I think we talked about last time we spoke and we got into that show. Uh, that one was a lot of fun. Um, one of the ones I remember there was having to wear a blindfold and gloves and try to build a structure out of marshmallows and spaghetti noodles. And whoever got the tallest one got the best points.

Phil: Wow.

Kyle: So we recorded ourselves, each of us. We had to record ourselves doing it and then send it in, uh, to the judge. And watching the clip of yourself, like, with blindfolds on and gloves, trying to build something where you have no sense of sight, you have no sense of feel. Just watching it, like, droop as I'm sitting there thinking, it's up here.

People in America tend to move a lot more than other countries

Phil: So people in America tend to move a lot more than, um, in other countries. So you're not from Peoria and your wife is not from Peoria. You've sort of come from other areas.

Kyle: My wife was a lot more stationary than I was. She grew up in Phoenix and, um, lived there for most of her is. I think she lived in Dallas for a little spell, but they went back pretty quick when she was, like, in her early teens. I think.

Phil: Yeah. And where were you brought up?

Kyle: I was brought up in Houston. I grew up in Tucson. I lived in Bakersfield, California. Um, let's see, South Carolina, Chicago, New York, Memphis, Mississippi, um, Green Bay and Tennessee. Yeah, I've been all over the place, but most of that was from the military. And without, um, pensions and things like that anymore. These days there's no real incentive to stick around in one job for 40 years and put up with a bunch of bullshit because everybody has the same plans. So I think people these days are a lot more apt or willing to jump ship and go move to another company if the benefits are there. Ah, really? That's kind of the best way to get a pay raise in the states. Anyway.

Phil: Go find. Right. Okay.

Kyle: Because otherwise you're getting 3% annual raises. If you go jump on to another company, you can get a 20% bump. There's a lot more financial incentive to move, but, uh, it can be tough. Have you ever relocated?

Phil: No. I've lived in Sydney my whole life and, uh, I remember the statistic that there's something like 90% of the australian GDP is produced in 7 Sydney and Melbourne. So really there's no incentive to move, really, unless it's if you work in the mining industry. Of course you'd go over to Western Australia and work there because there's a lot of wealth and the resources are over there. But basically for any other kind of job, you've got to be in Sydney and Melbourne. And of course it's becoming a nightmare here because you've got the high mortgages now. Rents are through the roof. Um, it's becoming totally unlivable. Um, it's absolutely insane what's going on here at the moment. And it just seems to be tinkering around the edges. There's not enough homes being built, not enough apartments being built. There's too much immigration at the moment and, um, that's taking away a lot of the accommodation.

Kyle: That's funny that I thought Australia was really strict with their immigration. Uh, it's really hard to get a visa to come work there.

Phil: Yeah. But, um, it doesn't take that many people to make. I was just reading today that the target was like 250,000 people per annum on. These are temporary visas for people to work. Um, but it's doubled. It's more like 500,000. So, like, to get a city the size of Canberra arriving in the last year without any new infrastructure and new housing in place, it's a big deal.

Kyle: How many people are in Sydney now?

Phil: Uh, about 5 million, something like.

Kyle: It's about the size of probably Phoenix or one of those big.

Phil: Yeah, yeah, no, it's a big city. Um, and of course there's all that thing where no one wants to have any new development in their backyards. And m there's still a lot of sprawl, still a lot of very large places with one or two people living in them.

Kyle: Right.

Phil: So it's been a combination of factors and I really think it's a consequence of what happened during the COVID mess up and lockdowns and everything, because it's a similar situation in the UK, similar situation in Canada and a lot of other places. Like. So I don't know. I do worry about my kids. Know how they're going to survive. Anyways, don't get too depressed.

Kyle: Let's bring back to Christmas.

I want to know what you guys do in Australia for Christmas traditions

I want to know what you guys do in Australia. Do you have any different traditions there?

Phil: Uh, well, uh, it's the height of summer here.

Kyle: Yes, I was wondering about that.

Phil: So the traditions are. Yes, we still have Christmas puddings and we still have turkeys. And my mother insists of having a turkey each year.

Kyle: When you say Christmas pudding, what does that mean?

Phil: Because that's not an english thing. No, Christmas pudding is an english thing. It's like a, um, fruitcake of some sort. Very rich fruitcake.

Kyle: But it's like more like a bread almost, right?

Phil: M wouldn't say a bread.

Kyle: No, cake.

Phil: Very.

Kyle: More of a. Yeah.

Phil: Very moist cake. Usually brandy in it as well. It's a very english kind of tradition.

Kyle: So what do they call what we call pudding? Like, if you see what we call those little jello snack cups, they're just like a chocolate liquid.

Phil: What do we call those? Um, jellos, I guess something like that. No, that's not that kind of pudding. But, um, then of course, to counteract that, there's lots of salads, there's lots of beer and lots of seafood. Seafood. Prawns.

Kyle: Shrimp.

Phil: You call them shrimp, but yeah, prawns, oysters. And, um, I live very close to Sydney fish markets here, so one of my personal traditions is to go on my push bike in the middle of the night because they're open for 24 hours a day for the few days before Christmas and stock up on prawns, oysters, few things to put on the barbecue or the barbie, as we call it here. Ah, yeah.

Kyle: What's a dozen oysters run you guys out there if you're getting them raw in the half shell?

Phil: Well, in australian dollars, it's about 25 australian dollars for a dozen oysters, which would be, I'd say about $16, somewhere around about 15.

Kyle: $16 seems pretty comparable then. Okay. You guys aren't getting cheap oysters at least.

Phil: Yeah. Also, you understand the idea of, um, raw half oysters in the shell?

Kyle: Oh, I love them. Uh, except, uh, I like a little bit of horseradish, uh, dab of cocktail sauce on it. And then I eat with a cracker.

Phil: With a cracker.

Kyle: I like the cracker. I like the texture that it gives with it.

Phil: Because, um, I was at a function one night, and there were a lot of Americans there, and they were handing out the oysters, and they were looking at them in absolute disgust.

Kyle: I know, right? Try them. They're delicious.

Phil: Yeah. So you're the first American I've met who's actually. Well, I'm sure there must be other that would.

Kyle: The raw oysters, but taught me the joy of that.

Phil: Yeah, but these people, they were just. They had to be taken back to the kitchen, put, uh, under the griller.

Kyle: Make them rockefeller, ruin them.

Phil: They were talking about Louisiana style, so I'm not sure what Louisiana style is.

Kyle: Is that like, with the cheese on? Cause I think that's what the rockefeller is like. They bake them with a little bit of cheese on.

Phil: No. Ah, no raw oysters. They're.

Kyle: You, uh, guys, I love getting, uh, crawfish when the season's in, but you guys call them, I think, yabbies.

Phil: Yabbies, yeah.

Kyle: Are those big out there, big boils that you. Not really, no.

Phil: Not really. No. I've never taken off. I mean, you can get yabbies, but, um, we've got a thing called, um, balmain bugs. I, um, actually live in a suburb called Balmain, and they're kind of like little lobsters, I guess they kind of look like, know, like a fossil. Yeah, yeah. And they're delicious. They're absolutely. Yeah. I often get a few bugs as well.

There's so many interesting nuances about language that you never would have thought about

Kyle: Speaking of words, um, I got to thank you for turning me on to that history of english podcast.

Phil: Oh, fantastic. You've been enjoying it, yeah.

Kyle: Oh, yeah. Wife and I listened to it. I think we binged about, like, 15 or 20 of them while making dinners for a while there to go back. There's so many really crazy nuances about language that you never would have thought about. Like the way they were able to piece together, uh, an old, extinct language because they noticed in these three ancient ones, they all have similar words for wheel or for cows. Now we can figure out what location they came from. They're likely here because we know that these types of animals were here, the forensics they can do with. It's fascinating, I know.

Phil: And, um, that idea that because we're talking about proto indoeuropean languages, which is where most, um, of the languages in Europe came from, and also Sanskrit in India came, um, from similar roots. But there was one episode where he was talking about when, uh, I think it had to do with chariots, didn't it, that people, chariots brought the language. Because chariots became such an effective weapon of mass conquest that they took the chariots and the language with them. And when they were heading westward into Europe and hit the carpathian mountains, some charioteers went to the north, and some went to the south, and ones went to the north, their language turned into the germanic languages. And the ones that went to the south turned into Greek and Latin, only to be all reunited later, many, uh, years later in history and ending up in the milange that is the english language.

Kyle: So fascinating. I think that was another really cool one. I was reading up on Anamatapia a while ago, and I think I remember reading sneeze is actually a form of that because the original version of the word had a k in front of it. So if you pronounce it with the k, it kind of sounds like you're sneezing. Sneeze, yeah.

Phil: And with the k, of course, gives it more of, um, that greek sound as just been. Um, yesterday we had a bit of a family day because we've know several families and some go away at Christmas. So we had a bit of a Christmas thing yesterday. And there's, um, actually the suburb in Sydney where I grew up, which is a very greek area. And, um, we got the begatsa from there, which is this greek, beautiful greek, uh, dessert. Bugatsa.

Kyle: I'm going to have to look bugatsa.

Phil: And just so cheap. And you go to this deli next door to it as well, and you get these huge chunks of beautiful greek cheeses and beautiful olives and all sorts of things. And you come out of then you've spent under $100 and you got food to feed five or six people.

Kyle: I used to love, um, some of the mexican places I used to get when I lived in Tucson. There's a little stand called Nico's tacos where you can get. It was $5, uh, 20 years ago. I'm sure the price has gone up now. $5 for two beef chimichangas. And these things were almost a pound each.

Phil: What are they? What's a chimichanga?

Kyle: It's like a burrito, but it's deep fried.

Phil: Yeah.

Kyle: Like the outside of it. So it's nice and crispy. Yeah. Uh, one of those. Like, I could barely finish one. I got two of them in this thing for $5. Like, you kidding me?

Phil: Although we've got, um, so much asian influence here. Oh, I bet you do. Chinese restaurants, indonesian restaurants, thai restaurants, especially Thai. Thai. There's so many thai restaurants.

Kyle: I wish I'd like thai food more. I don't care for the sweet and the spicy. I love the spicy stuff that they have. But they put a lot of coconut milk in a lot of their stuff.

Phil: Yeah, not into that.

Kyle: Not necessarily. Although I do like their thai iced teas. I can feel myself getting fatter drinking them, but they're so good.

Phil: That's right. Well, actually, their coconut water drinks are beautiful as well.

Kyle: Oh, yeah, coconut waters. Yeah.

Phil: Uh, they're beautiful. Yeah. Lots of hydrolytes. Good for, um, replenishing after sweating a lot, which you mightn't be doing this summer or this Christmas, maybe.

Kyle: Hopefully not.

Phil: Got any plans for 2024?

Kyle: Um, I mean, we just made our big changes. So I think the, um, next couple of months are going to be just kind of taking stock of how they're doing and seeing if anything needs tweaked. I'd still like to at some point do, um, another miniseries on fundamental analysis. Uh, but I don't know, there's so much. You can only spend so much of your time on so many things and with the option series and then futures, sometimes it's too much. Yeah. I may actually just try to take some more time and focus on one thing rather than being too spread out.

Phil: Yeah, spread it out too much.

Are you dealing with listeners and other people who are coming on board

So how are you finding it? Um, when you're dealing with. Listen, are you dealing with listeners and other people who are coming on board and, um, talking about it? Is there a community group as well?

Kyle: Oh, yeah, we have a discord where, um.

Phil: Discord?

Kyle: Yeah, we merged with our friends over at Vanta trading. They're the, uh, two of the panelists that regularly appear on the show now. They have a paid room where they offer, uh, educational services and mentorships and other amazing stuff, town halls and stuff like that. And then we operate the free side of that. So we put together events. We've, uh, got a coding workshop that we're trying to put together for people who want to learn how to build their own studies or, uh, make use of Chat GPT to help them write some python scripts to do back testing. Um, we do, uh, m period challenges on Fridays so we can get people together to. The idea is to not fuck up your Friday. So go into Sim mode and we'll play for some prizes, that kind of stuff.

Phil: Yeah. Uh, how are you finding people are reacting? I mean, when you're talking on discord and the community, what are the kind of people, what are their expectations? What are they looking for?

Kyle: That's been great, actually. Uh. Um, I think the expectation is just to have the honesty, like you said, with your experiences. Um, there's so many shysters and people out there just trying to make a buck. Uh, that it's just refreshing to hear somebody say like, hey, here's how I lost a bunch of money when I was in your shoes. And this is what I did and what I learned from it, being able to provide those kinds of conversations. I think the reaction has been phenomenal and uh, the engagement's been getting much, much better. Uh, people are writing in, suggesting guests, uh, to get on the show now. Um. Uh, it's been really fun watching it kind of come together and uh, it's been really starting to take off over the last year.

Phil: Oh, you had Carl on, didn't you? Was it Carl that came on? Oh, no. Casey. Sorry. Casey Stubbs.

Kyle: Casey Stubbs, yeah, and I did his show.

Phil: Uh, good, good. Yeah, he's a nice guy and another very honest person as well. I think that's the key to this is. I'm not trying to say that they're shysters. I mean, you did use the word shysters, but obviously there's some out there.

Kyle: I'm not going to name names.

Phil: Yeah, but they want to make money out of selling an educational product. Um, but really there is so much that you need to understand. And I really commend you guys for what you're doing in terms of being basically honest about it, like we've been saying. I mean, honesty is the key word to this, isn't it? Yeah.

Kyle: And uh, it's tough for the poor guy that's trying to learn because you don't know what you don't know. You don't know what's good information or what's bad information. That's part of what we're trying to accomplish with our community, to be able to point people to resources and things. We've talked to how many people over the years that, uh, you can tell when you get a guy that really genuinely cares? I'm more than happy to point people to their stuff. Like, hey, check out this guy. He talks about the kinds of things that I think it sounds like you're interested in. I like doing that kind of stuff. I like trying to connect people, to point them in the direction of places where they can find good information and not get taken advantage of.

Phil: And that's the thing. They're being taken advantage of often because people have got dreams, money means dreams, and realizing these dreams. And sometimes these people selling educational products, that's exactly their hands are going right into people's minds. And they know exactly which little switches to, um, which buttons to press and which switches to pull and emotionally get people sucked in and can often. That's something, a very good outcome for users.

Kyle: That's something rich told us, uh, when we first met him is, ah, that he said he doesn't use his powers for evil, but if he wanted to, he says he knows how to do it, how to be that guy. It's exactly what he just, you find out what that person wants and then you try to sell it to them. It's that simple. If you're seeing those words on, um, the screen when you're researching something that says, uh, basically everything that you want to happen, ah, maybe take a second look because that may be a bunch of empty promises.

Phil: That's a great thing. I hope that that's a takeaway that someone can, um, have from this particular episode. That, um, you've got to understand what you want, what your goals are. Uh, it's all that old financial planning advice, which is so, uh, cliched. But you really need to know yourself, know what you want, know what your needs are, uh, and know what you need to do to keep your money safe as well.

Kyle: Yeah.

Phil: Mhm.

Kyle: Hopefully all your new year's resolutions are still intact

Well, I think that's a good point to say goodbye and merry Christmas and happy new year. Even though by the time this comes out, that'll all have been happening. It shall happen. We have time traveled.

Kyle: Hopefully all the new year's resolutions are still intact.

Phil: New Year's resolutions. And, um, hopefully we've got world peace, we've got nuclear, uh, power, we've got, uh, clean energy.

Kyle: Grace banky over there rallying the troops. Shout out to Grace Sydney.

Phil: Yeah. And um, the history of English that, um, the more we know it, the better we can use it.

Kyle: There you go.

Phil: Yeah.

Kyle: Uh, well said. Well, thanks for having me on, Phil. This has been, uh, a very nice break from the typical conversations I have to do. It's always fun chatting with you because you never know where we're going to go.

Phil: Yeah, that's right. It's been really good to have at this know because I was just saying to my wife this morning before I came in, I haven't prepared a thing for this conversation, but, um, I don't know, I just feel like this is a nice way to have a little.

Kyle: I had a couple ready to go just in.

Phil: Good. Well, we've managed to nearly fill up the hour, so. Kyle, great to see you again.

Kyle: Phil, you have a great holidays, man. I, uh, hope it's not too hot. Maybe get a freak snow and you can build a snowman or a sandman.

Phil: Well, luckily we've got about hundreds, uh, of beaches here in Sydney, so that's not a problem.

Kyle: Think of me then.

Phil: Okay, signing off. Thanks for listening to stocks for beginners. If you enjoy listening, please take a moment to rate or review in your podcast player or tell a friend who might want to learn more about investing for their future.

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